The Collapse Board Interview: Ed Kuepper (2024)
It’ll probably never stop being weird that of all the places in the world I could have ended up, I’ve ended up on the other side of the planet living in Brisbane. Next year it’ll be twenty years and I’m not quite sure how that happened. But it’ll also never stop being weird that I know of Brisbane long before I could point to Brisbane on a map thanks to the weekly music press’s patronage of the Go-Betweens and the Saints. (It might have been thanks to the Ashes tests at the Gabba but I don’t think so, given: (a) the Australian tours happen in the middle of the night over in the UK and don’t get the same attention as the UK tests; (b) the 1985 tour was probably too early on for me to have taken much interest; (c) by the time of the 1989 Ashes tour, I’d been reading the NME, Melody Maker and Sounds for years and knew that Brisbane existed). More than 50 years after they formed, the Saints are still putting Brisbane on the musical map, and rightly so. Those first three Saints records are albums that every home should own.
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When we spoke to Ed Kuepper in July 2023, it was to talk about the reissues of his Electrical Storm and Honey Steel’s Gold albums, the start of a broader reissue of his solo albums. When we talked to Ed Kuepper a year later in July 2024, it’s to discuss the deluxe 4-LP box set of (I’m) Stranded, which includes a remastered version of debut album, a previously unreleased 1976 demo mix, live recordings from 1977 Australian and UK shows, single B-sides, plus a photo essay book of the band covering their origins from 1973 through the end of of 1977.
We also discussed the new band Kuepper has assembled, The Saints ’73-‘78, for an Australian tour in support of the boxed set, as well as playing songs from the Eternally Yours and Prehistoric Sounds albums that followed the debut. And what a band it is. Alongside Kuepper are original Saints drummer and founding member Ivor Hay plus honorary Saints Mark Arm (Mudhoney), Peter Oxley (Sunnyboys) and Mick Harvey (The Birthday Party / Bad Seeds).
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It’s been a year since we talked last. I think the first question is always, how’s the autobiography coming along?
Pretty good, thanks [laughs].
You always seem to find new ways to keep yourself busy.
Yeah, I guess I do [laughs].
Let’s start with the new deluxe boxed edition of (I’m) Stranded coming out. What involvement did you have?
Oh, pretty significant involvement. A lot of the stuff in the book that comes with the boxed set comes from my archives. I put it together with Tim Pittman and our graphic designer, Cameron Moss from Ultra Vivid Design. It’s been a fairly arduous process getting it done and I’ve been involved fairly strongly.
Was anyone else from the band involved in it?
To a lesser extent, everyone was involved in it up to a point, but I’m the only one that’s got all the archival material. Everyone was aware of what was going on and gave their approval when they could.
You mentioned your archives, is it like a well-organized archive?
No, it’s an awfully organised archive [laughs]! It’s hardwood boxes of stuff that I’ve collected over the years. There’s no real organisation. If you’re lucky you’ll come across a box that might have something, a whole pack of things all pertaining to a band or a project or something like that. It’s quite good when you come across something that is organised, but overall it’s not, I’ve never really had the time or the inclination to do it. It’s one of those funny things that when you start going through them, it’s quite easy to get distracted by something and start reading articles, and I just really try to avoid that if possible. So, it’s messed up purely by necessity, but it was good to get through it.
The boxed set says it’s has got all recordings studio and live from 1976 and 1977, including a previously unreleased mix of the album?
Yeah, that’s right. The only thing where we broke the chronology a little bit was that Eternally Yours, the second album, was recorded in 1977, but we cut just before that, just because that’s a different project. But apart from that, yes, it’s the live recordings and studio recordings that we have. There are probably some live recordings that aren’t included, just because I don’t have access to the tapes.
You mentioned Eternally Yours there. Are Eternally Yours and Prehistoric Sounds going to get the same deluxe box set treatment in the future?
I’m hoping to. Part of the long process has been getting the rights to do it. We don’t own these tapes. It’s a matter of negotiating with different record companies these days, because the stuff that we did in the UK for Harvest isn’t part of EMI anymore, or Universal anymore, so it’s a different label. Also involved in the process is trying to actually get decent royalty rates on the stuff. I think the process started about, oh God, I can’t actually remember when, but it was largely me going through the stuff with my manager, and he was just basically saying, “We really should try and tidy it up.” And so we started the process and everyone in the band was on board for a change. It was a good thing that everyone was on board, but it was kind of annoying that it took so long to get it happening.
Because I think the last couple of times we spoke has been about, I think maybe the first time was about The Aints, and then last year was about the re-release of your solo albums, and the Mr. MiraKle lost album. Is it hard to escape the lure of the Saints? Is it something you embrace?
I don’t try to escape it. I mean, I’ve always stood by the material that we did. I think in some ways I was probably, for a long time, the only advocate for the early stuff. So it’s not that I’m trying to escape it, it’s part of what I’ve done and it takes, I suppose, particular significance because it was the first stuff that I did. But it’s as important to me as the [Laughing] Clowns and the solo stuff.
I was never sure whether it gets in the way of what you’re doing, or what you’re wanting to do next.
No, it doesn’t really stop me doing anything else. Well, I mean, that’s not completely true. I mean, if I’m doing this, I can’t be doing something else, but I choose to be doing this.
So you’ve got some dates coming up. You’ve put together a pretty special band to do it. So starting with Ivor then, is this the first time since Pig City you’ve played together?
I think we did some shows after Pig City. We did ATP [All Tomorrow’s Parties] and ‘Don’t Look Back’. I think that was more 2009, 2010, sometime around there.
Ah, yes, I’d forgotten about those shows despite actually having a potential question for later on about them. When you played ATP in Brisbane with Nick Cave, it was advertised as the Saints playing (I’m) Stranded in full, and it didn’t happen. Was there any reason why it didn’t happen?
Oh, there certainly was [laughs].
It was a very difficult series of shows to do, and I was just really, really pleased that I was also doing the Laughing Clowns at the same time. The funny thing was that the Clowns were a much more difficult band when we were going, in terms of everybody was just always really tense, and especially towards the end, it wasn’t a particularly pleasant environment. But when we got back together, it was almost joyous. Everyone was happy to see each other and play together, so that was really great.
But with the Saints, it was much more complex. There were just endless little dramas. One of the things with ‘Don’t Look Back’, doing the Stranded album, was that for the other shows on that tour, I think we might have played the album once.
We did a couple of shows in Melbourne, and one was sort of like a broader performance of material from across the first three albums, and then there was one where we did (I’m) Stranded plus some encore. The Brisbane show, we were supposed to do this, and the day before the show, Chris said to me, “Well, if we’re only playing the album, we don’t need the horn section.” And I said, “Yeah, but what if we probably do some encores, so we should take them.” And he said, “No, let’s just save some money.” It was kind of difficult, so I said, “Okay, all right.”
Then the next morning at the Melbourne Airport, I think it was, could have been Sydney, I can’t remember where we were, but we were on our way to Brisbane and I was sitting having a coffee, and Chris’s manager cum representative, came over to my table and said, “Oh, Chris doesn’t want to do the album.” And it was just like, “Oh, fuck.” So we don’t have a horn section and we’re not doing the album that doesn’t have horns on it.
And we got there, no soundcheck. I think that Brisbane show was the only time that I could remember feeling embarrassed about what I’ve just done. Like I’ve done shitty shows, everyone does that, and you think, “Oh, that was a load of shit,” but this was actually just an embarrassment. It was like, “Fuck, this was awful.” And so that’s the story behind that. It was basically just a little power play, or something like that, and it made it a really difficult thing to be associated with, for me anyway.
Going back to Ivor, he stayed with the band for a bit after you left, and then also played with Chris during the 1980s. There weren’t any ‘taking sides’ issues that had to be resolved at some point or other?
Well, it wasn’t quite like that, because the band split up, and it came together again after. I’m not quite sure when this was, it must have been around either late ‘79 or 1980, sometime around there. The Laughing Clowns were already going, and then Chris came back to Australia and said he wanted to reform the band. He already had a band together but he asked me if I wanted to be involved, and I said no. I also indicated I didn’t think it was a great idea to go out as the Saints. But anyway, that happened. I’m not a litigious sort of person, and I expressed my disapproval, but I didn’t do anything more about it.
The fact that Ivor and Chris still did some stuff, I mean, Ivor plays on that version of the band’s biggest hits, I think, no, I didn’t feel any resentment towards Ivor or anything, it wasn’t a matter of taking sides. Ivor was involved from the outset, it was sort of, “Oh yeah.”
Peter Oxley is on bass and you’ve been playing with him for a while in your solo band. In the early days of the Saints you went through a number of bassists. Kim Bradshaw played on the album and before Algy Ward came in. Algy sadly passed away last year but Kim was never in the running to be part of what you’re doing now?
No, not really. The process of putting the band together had commenced some time ago but until we had the box set kind of completed and ready to go into production, and had a label that was going to actually put the work into it, the tour wasn’t the first thing, it was getting the box set done first. I think the way Kim played on that first album was actually really good, probably better than I thought it was at the time, but no, it wasn’t sort of a real consideration. There just wasn’t quite the connection there for me.
Presumably Mick Harvey‘s coming in as a guitarist?
And a little bit of keyboard, there is a bit of keyboard on the Saints, those three records. Mick plays both guitar and keyboard, he plays everything I think, except for maybe the brass stuff. So yeah, primarily he was considered as a rhythm guitar player, a second guitar player, and I think he’s a really strong rhythm guitar player.
I don’t know if you’ve ever played with a second guitarist in your own band, did you feel you needed a second guitarist for these shows?
I did, because on the records, I double track stuff. Especially from the second album onwards, there’s often an acoustic rhythm put into the mix, and I really like that texture of having an acoustic with an electric rhythm. I wanted to hear that again, just add something good to the mix.
I’m sure everyone’s asking you about how Mark Arm came to get involved in this project.
Yeah, they all do. I asked him, or we asked him [laughs].
Did you know him beforehand?
Not personally, no. But it was a mutual friend of ours, when we were discussing doing this, and I indicated that I wanted a stand-alone singer rather than me doing the vocals and guitar parts.
I wanted someone that had a vocal approach, I guess. And our mutual friend said, “Well, what about Mark?” and I just thought, “Fuck, yeah, what about him?” It just seemed obvious, in the same way that Mick kind of came up in the conversation and it was suggested by someone else actually and it just seemed obvious once the suggestion had been made.
Did you have an initial shortlist of other singers, or did Mark come around quickly?
We had a couple of people in mind, but once Mark was suggested, I just thought, “Yeah, I think he’ll do this really well,” and he was really keen, which makes a nice change [laughs]. So it was almost a very sort of mellow approach to the whole thing, you know, just put something out, see what comes back.
I can’t remember how many shows there are, but you’ve added some more to the initial dates that were announced, but is this a one-off, or are you planning to do any festivals or take this out of Australia?
We’ve had a number of inquiries from overseas, which is really great. There’s been real enthusiasm about the project. Whether it’s feasible to actually tour the band is another matter, but everyone in the band has indicated that they’re keen to do it if it’s possible. It’s a big band, it’s like an eight piece with a horn section, so with the logistics, it’s hard to know what the demand would be outside of Australia. We’re looking at it, but that’s kind of all I can say. I don’t want to make it sound like it’s out of the question or anything like that. There is a lot of enthusiasm, whether that enthusiasm is great enough to actually make it financially feasible is the issue.
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THE SAINTS ’73-’78 NOVEMBER 2024
Wed 13th: Adelaide Hindley St. Music Hall
special guests The Double Agents
Friday 15th: Castlemaine Theatre Royal (SOLD OUT)
special guests Parsnip
Saturday 16th: Melbourne Northcote Theatre (SOLD OUT)
special guests The Double Agents
Sunday 17th: Melbourne Northcote Theatre
special guests Alien Nosejob
Wednesday 20th: Fremantle Freo Social (SOLD OUT)
special guests Chimers
Friday 22nd: Sydney, Enmore Theatre (SOLD OUT)
special guests Kim Salmon & The Surrealists
Saturday 23rd: Brisbane, Princess Theatre (SOLD OUT)
special guests Chimers
Sunday 24th: Brisbane, Princess Theatre (SOLD OUT)
special guests Chimers
Monday 25th: Brisbane, Princess Theatre
special guests Chimers
Wednesday 27th: Hobert, Odeon Theatre
special guests Liquid Nails
Friday 29th: Thirroul, Anitas Theatre
Saturday 30th: Byron Bay, The Green Room
Tickets for all shows available via feelpresents.com
THE SAINTS (I’M) STRANDED BOXSET is released November 15 on In The Red via Universal Music Australia and is available for pre-order here
